Zapiro’s Sunday Times cartoon.
Monday, 8 September 2008, at 09:24Zapiro’s cartoon that was published in the Sunday Times, yesterday, has caused a countrywide furore. For the record, I believe in the freedom of speech that the South African Constitution awards us, and as such, Zapiro gets my high-five for flipping the bird to the country’s politicians, including the one who is suing him.
If you, like so many other readers, would like to see Zapiro apologise, then you obviously don’t understand the subtext. If you, like so many other readers, would like to censor cartoons like this, then you obviously don’t believe in free speech.
Think very carefully about South Africa’s current politics, and history, before you lambaste Zapiro.
Edit: to avoid ambiguity, I am not suggesting that Zapiro is above criticism. I am merely highlighting the importance of free speech, which was regulated by the apartheid government. (A cesspool into which I don’t want to return.)
Monday, 8 September 2008, at 09:48
So Zapiro is above critisism?
Monday, 8 September 2008, at 09:56
Darryl I don’t think thats what is being said here.
I personally feel that Zapiro has nothing to apologise for. He has become as well known as he is because of the way he stabs the sensitive issues and brings home his point.
I vote no apology.
Monday, 8 September 2008, at 10:09
Apologising for telling it like it is so aptly would be “counter-revolutionary”.
Criticism of political leaders is a democratic right and these idiots are destroying democracy as well as raping justice.
The cartoon contains none of the hate speech, racism or threats of violence that the characters portrayed have been spewing out for months. These are the issues that need to be held in check.
Good luck tonight. All three nominees are great commentators and humourists and it is going to be a tight finish.
Monday, 8 September 2008, at 10:20
They want to sue him for doing his job….. hmmm.
Monday, 8 September 2008, at 10:51
Trish, which is almost the modern day equivalent throwing him in prison… But oh, no wait, like Jeremy said, we only surpressed freedom of speech during apartheid…
Monday, 8 September 2008, at 12:24
I love it!!! Zapiro should have included Tony Yengeni in the cartoon seeing as he has a total disregard of the law too. http://southafrica-pig.bl...ster-tony-yengeni-in.html
These clowns are such a joke! Sadly my family has a 5-year plan for leaving South Africa as things are just getting worse and worse. I would hate to move but this total violation of the justice system is the beginning of the end. My friends and I used to have hope but it is waning fast.
Monday, 8 September 2008, at 12:52
zapiro rules, for the moment! good job!
Monday, 8 September 2008, at 13:19
There’s NOTHING to lambaste! Did you hear the interview? He has my support.
Monday, 8 September 2008, at 13:21
That woman was representing the justice system (always represented by a woman bearing the scales of justice). Get a life - why so touchy?
And who’s the brainless idiot that wants to blame the Sunday Times? I thought we had freedom of speech here.
Monday, 8 September 2008, at 13:37
Why would they be upset about this lets count the ways.
Ahh fuckit who cares. Go Zapiro We have your back
Monday, 8 September 2008, at 14:35
Way to go Zapiro - excellent!!
Good thing you are not up against this one tonight. Good luck for later Jeremy.
I can understand why some people get upset - the truth can hurt. But, in the same vein, if we aloow people to censor / sue this, then surely I would be allowed to censor / sue Mbeki and the ANC for their endless comments against white people.
Monday, 8 September 2008, at 14:43
[...] I’d like to say that I fully support the man’s right to express exactly what I’ve been thinking. I’m not the only one. [...]
Monday, 8 September 2008, at 14:51
I see no need for him to apologise – he’s drawn it like it is! I agree, the truth hurts!
And quite frankly, I think the cartoon’s actually veryclever
Monday, 8 September 2008, at 16:24
The ANC will get all excited about this because the truth hurts. What Zuma and his cronies are doing to the justice system in disgraceful. I’m now looking forward to Zapiro’s equivalent cartoon about the behaviour of MPs and the law (Travelgate, Arms Deal, etc)
Monday, 8 September 2008, at 17:25
It’s an excellent cartoon with a truth filled observation. No other cartoonist in SA would have been allowed to publish a cartoon like this, so I think it’s a gutsy move from the Sunday Times and I respect them for it. Good luck tonight Jeremy, I personally think it’s between you and Zapiro and it would stroke my stoke gland if you won.
Monday, 8 September 2008, at 19:09
Where there’s smoke there’s fire
Monday, 8 September 2008, at 19:41
After hearing about the process cartoonist go through to have their cartoons published in the media…
er - the editor should carry the can for this one…
And I say way to go! to both the editor and the cartoonist here.
As mentioned so many times - the cartoon says it all! The message is so clear and simple! … “total violation of the justice system” or the rape of justice…
Monday, 8 September 2008, at 20:31
If their has to be any kind of recrimination from a government (especially one who loathes anyone who disagrees) then we are back to the days of the inquisitions - with no hope of recovery in my, my children or my grandchildren’s time.
Fact.
I’m so sorry Madiba and all those great men that came before you - we failed this country again.
Sound familiar?
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 08:00
Hmm, part I liked the most was the little shower head on top of Zuma’s head.
It’s little touches like those that makes Zapiro even more masterful in his satire.
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 08:04
As always, Zapiro tells it like it is and no one should ever be lambasted for doing so. This man has guts, I totally admire him. Way to go, dude!
(Jeremy, I have been a bad friend - still havent congratulated you for your nomination! A thousand apologies. So congrats, and I wish you all the best. You definitely deserve it!!)
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 08:06
I have to agree…with Yzerfontein
why get all up in arms if there is no truth in what the cartoon portrays…if there was no truth to it, why don’t they just ignore it like they do all the other “non-true” media “hype”…I’m thinking they are up in “arms” (xcuse the pun
) simply because there is more truth to it than they are willing to admit, i.e. all parties portrayed in the cartoon.
My vote is go Zapiro go (rah rah rah) [yes that would be me leading the cheerleading squad!!!!]
I vote NO APOLOGY!! I reiterate, why apologise for expressing your views?! *shrug*
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 08:30
I think Zap is merely telling it like it is.The main protractor in the case is the Cosatu spokesperson.Now he isnt even South African.He’s another shit stirring Pom who cant get a job in the UK probably cos he stirred too much union shit there and so he came here to continue his role.We dont really need cartoons to make the ANC prez look bad-he is doing just fine on his own. BUT, the cartoon shows a clear metaphor between JZ and what he is doing to the judiciary and what he intends doing to the rest of the country. Quick to decry violence in SA, he fails to criticise the very same actions by his support base.
And to Darryl - no-one is above criticism.But when you have to listen to these half baked political baboons for fear of reprisals, then society is taking a very dangerous road.There are many people in South Africa who are very positive in their outlook to the future.I am not one of them.There are far too many parallels with other African dictator states that leave very little room for positivity for the future. I am on my way out of the country because people like JZ are going to do a Mugabe on the country and I for one dont want that experience.But that is MY choice.If yours is to stay and support him,thats yours
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 08:35
Will Farrel can openly humiliate Bush but the ANC are always so damn sensitive, they can’t take a joke!
The truth hurts I say…Zapiro just made the truth funny!
No apology Dude…Freedom of Speech!
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 08:37
It’s been said before, but if there was no truth in the cartoon, no one would be upset or excited. To get this upset about a cartoon means that it hit somewhere that hurts.
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 09:10
Hail Zapiro!!!! The furor this has caused just shows that the truth really does hurt - not just the clowns in the cartoon, but us little people too!!! What is happening to our beloved country? And how much worse will it be when our acclaimed commentators are no longer allowed to comment?
PS Sunday Times - well done!!!!
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 09:28
Where are the likes of Swart and Rooster on this blog. I would find it interesting to see how they defend there criminal ANC gods on this one.
Maybe they are having a frothy fit first, and sticking their needles into their little white man voodoo dolls.
I think Zap was clever and brave and wanting to tell the truth, no wonder the idiots in power don’t like it.
Way to go Zap! And when they have you arrested/ murdered, rest assured Jeremy will pick up where you left off.
10/10!!
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 09:52
Love the true to life character traits Zapiro manages to illustrate so aptly in his illustrations …………
That expression of pure brainlessness in his face.
BY THE WAY, does anyone really think he had the brainpower to even understand what the Saiks were doing? I mean, he’s just so dof that it’s quite possible that he hasn’t developed past the “mummy, I WANT that toy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” stage.
Or not?
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 10:08
Zapiro for President and Jeremy for … um… head of state. so we can be just like our brasse in Zim. aweh!
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 10:18
Jeremy.. i thought so.. the Waterkloof4 and Crowsley were not news enough.. they made headlines but never appeared on your ‘impartial’ blog…. of course that would have shamed the whites folk..
Back to the cartoon: Zapiro did i good job and i don’t think he has to apologise for it.. that does not mean i stop supporting the ANC.. whites supported the rogue NP for 40years.. so we will support our ANC because by not doing so we will be allowing the whites to power again..
we will take a leaf from the white folks and put the ANC in power for 40years irrespective of whether it does good or not.. in light of a lack of credible opposition party with struggle credentials, the ANC sadly remains our home.. Surely whites are not that naive to expect blacks who are disgruntled against the ANC to vote the DA.. they will rather abstain from voting..
Please im in no mood to engage any of you..
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 10:29
Swart - what if another black party comes along and they stand for everything you believe in, are credible and have the support of whites as well?
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 10:39
Jacoba… let me inform you that there is a movement called “The Spoilt Vote”.. that is working towards denying the Zuma ANC our vote.. im part of that movement.. Its a pity that we have Zuma as the ANC president.. i supported Mbeki 100% but sadly we were outnumbered.. ANC is my home but the current crop of ‘leaders in waiting’ makes me very worried and sad..
I want a party molded on ANC policies that understands the plight of the black population… sadly we don’t have one right now.. believe we are fighting to take back the soul of the ANC.. Zuma is a pawn and has been and is being used by tne so called ‘champions of the poor’.
We are banking on Kgalema Motlhanthe.. so all is not doom and gloom, we are not ready to KILL for Zuma.. they youth of this country will kill for jobs and access to education..
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 10:46
zapiro is the last journalist left at the sunday times.
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 10:48
Luckily I’m in no mood to engage you either SS, but congrats for stating your support for Zapiro.
To Zapiro - cooooooooooooooool.
To Jeremy - just as cooooooooooooool
It is amazing that we as a society can be acceptant and even supportive of what can only be declared as criminal action.
The Waterkloof 4 as well as other “white” criminals are where they belong, behind bars or on parole with strict supervision. I have no problem with that.
I do have a problem with megalomaniac’s who believe they are untouchable because of their political affiliations and position eg McBride, Hlope, Zuma etc. etc. etc.
Such b$#%ards are running a jingle round the courts at our expense whilst being paid in full by the taxpayer and stretching the thing so far so they can close the scorpions, corrupt the NPA and finally get off scot free.
And then, they expect us to accept them getting golden handshakes and cushy jobs (like being President) whilst they enjoy the rest of their ill gotten gains.
Why doesn’t somebody in the ANC say “enough with these corrupt practices”, and why doesn’t somebody in government say “pay your own way”, or why don’t we as voters say ” we’ve had enough of your crap”.
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 10:54
Swart!!!!! You make absolute sense and I agree with you totally.
You have my support and best wishes in your mission. I believe your aims are noble and vital to the development and growth of this country.
I don’t give a hoot about the colour of the people who rule - as long as it’s done nobly and sensibly and no one is hurt.
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 11:06
@Sicovit.. sitting behind your fenced walls and whining won’t solve the problem.. you risk being labeled a racist like i did with Jacoba and alienating the black population of which you can’t do anything without their support.. the continuing racism further exacerbate the situation.. blacks say whites don’t like them and we tend to take every criticism directed at the govt personally..
It is right for a blacks to criticise THEIR govt, but don’t take it kindly to whites doing same.. by learning more about the black population, as i have realized that you lack knowledge.. you can start doing something meaningful.. one has to just look at the comments on rugby racism.. and can tell that there is still a huge gap in terms of race relations..
Again white leaders are never preaching the reconciliation gospel.. whites should take full responsibility for the one-party state mess we find ourselves in..
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 11:47
I’ve just heard on the radio that the ANC’s calling for the Sunday Times editor’s head… big surprize… maybe Zapiro’s next cartoon should depict “freedom of speech” being laid to rest on an unmarked grave!
Swart, I thought the ANC was the government of South Africa; therefore the government of all people living in South Africa, even if not everyone wants them in power. If I’m a voter and give a shit about my country, it gives me the right to complain and criticise if I so wish to do so.
I can appreciate your stand point about the upcoming leaders, but I can’t say I support your notion. Not voting is just giving the ANC votes ’cause there are no votes for the opposition; saying that voting for the DA will “put the whites back in power” is small minded! It’s that attitude that will keep the ANC in power and will result in this beautiful country going the same way as our neighbours up north! Why should it be a case of “black vs. white” as opposed to working together? But no, some people refuse to see past the colour line. I agree with Jacoba, I don’t care what colour my government is – as long as they do what they’re supposed to do properly!
But I forgot! It’s the eternal black man vs. white man ’cause we’re all just so small minded and stupid that we can’t look past colour and see the human beings!
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 11:57
@Judy.. you have to acknowledge that our country is very unique and taking into its past.. you can’t dismiss the race issue in SA.. We need a govt that knows the challenges faced by the black population.. the race issue will continue until the race issue has been addressed.. surely you don’t expect blacks benefiting from the current policies to vote for the DA that has no plan on how to address the past imbalances other than increasing the grants.. lets not shy away from the realities, only then will we be able to address the current challenges.. you might call it ’small minded’ , i call it reality..
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 12:10
No, I call it living in the past, actually. The more the “race issue” carries on simply means the more bad blood that will be created between the races.
You can’t ignore the country’s history, but you can learn from it. According to some people, correcting imbalances of the past means giving jobs to people less qualified for them because of their colour. That’s wrong. Plain and simple.
Just because some white jerks wanted to be racist and start up the Apartheid regime doesn’t mean that all white people should have to pay for their mistakes. By the same token, not all black people should be held accountable for the damage caused by the ANC or what damage may be caused in future.
I simply can’t grasp the reasoning behind not seeing human beings as opposed to colour. Our humanity should be more important than racial vendettas.
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 12:47
I vote no apology either.
I’ve heard it been called racist because there are only black people in it. Well he drew the actual heads of those departments, who are black. Would it have been better if he drew them white? I don’t get it.
Also the few people who totally misread it as being demeaning to woman obviously have no concept of a metaphor and symbolism.
“Lady Justice” has always been depicted as female. The fact that they are raping the justice system and Zuma’s history are all fitting with the metaphor.
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 13:18
Good toon Zapiro! can’t touch this…freedom of speech
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 13:37
@Judy.. what can be done to address the past imbalances..?? its no secret that whites are better off owing to the policies of the previous regime..
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 13:44
All whites? Swart Sak, please stop telling yourself that all whites are well off. There’s no point in denying that many benefitted to the detriment of black people, but how does trying to do a complete 180 change things? It just continues the infinite tug-of-war that will only end when racial discrimination ceases.
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 14:12
Firstly, stop being an obsessive little crybaby who pulls the race card at every opportunity. If you don’t like what I blog about, then piss off. It’s not rocket science, sweetheart.
Secondly, I have not followed those said news stories at all. There are other cartoonists commenting on those, so go Google them if you’re that interested.
Thirdly, I didn’t need to respond to you, so I’m not going to do it again.
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 15:39
@Jeremy..no need to respond, you got my point.
Judy.. the playing field has to be leveled.. its easy to say people should move on when you are in your comfort zone, see Zapiro cartoon on that..
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 15:43
Strange, though… when other people can look at it the same way that aren’t in a proverbial comfort zone. Fact is, swart, it’s quite obvious that you have an axe to grind.
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 15:49
@Judy.. if blacks endured it for 40years.. why can’t you?
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 15:50
i don’t mean the recent Zapiro cartoon.. there is one that he made on the levelling of the playing field.. i cant find it on his archive but i have it on my mac..
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 15:58
Why does it have to be a matter of vengeance? Don’t you see the repitition here that will result in everyone destroying each other…
*yawn*
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 16:03
Absolutely playing fields must be leveled and they will, naturally, be levelled
1) with decent education for all,
2) provision for food and adequate housing for all (trying to study in a dark cold shack is impossible),
3) after school care and pre school care as an absolute MUST and funded by government, where necessary
4) parental education where neccesary
And this is just to start. Anyone saying that a black child is not as intelligent as a white child is an idiot.
BUT - it will not be achieved by the complete and utter lawlessness, corruption, blatant theft and total disregard the people in power feel for us. Black or white.
We have fallen into the same sick quagmire as the old government ……….. only it’s getting worse because more people are suffering now and those that are suffering are desperate and have to resort to anything to they can do to eed their families!
Russia in the early post communism days was exactly the same and I visited there then, and it was! Problem is ….. it’s not much better now - is it?
Okay. I talk to much.
Tuesday, 9 September 2008, at 17:13
Why has this degenerated into a black/white, old government/new government thing. Was Zapiro’s cartooon superb? Yes it was. Did it portray the truth in a few square inches? Absolutely. Zapiro apologise? What utter rubbish. Sunday Times apologise? Never.
Wednesday, 10 September 2008, at 08:19
Good note Hazel, Swarsak got lost again,someone show him the way to go.
THIS BLOG POST WAS ABOUT ZAPIRO’S CARTOON, NOT THE CRAP THAT POURS OUT OF SWARTSAK’S MOUTH EVERYTIME HE OPENS IT!IT!
Wednesday, 10 September 2008, at 08:21
And the “T” was left out on purpose!
Wednesday, 10 September 2008, at 09:01
And don’t forget it takes at least two to argue. If no one responded to Swartsak it wouldn’t go any further. On Friday the citizens of Natal’s capital city will be hamstrung again, unable to go anywhere, staff unable to get to work, the town like a circus - this time there is going to be an all day pop concert outside the high court - so that Zuma can continue with his rape of the justice system. Zapiro, let’s have more of the same and don’t leave Hlope out this time. In case anyone thought otherwise, his little scene is about making the judges look biased before the event.
Wednesday, 10 September 2008, at 09:27
Whoa guys! Let’s re-look at his comment - just for a minute:
“Jacoba… let me inform you that there is a movement called “The Spoilt Vote”.. that is working towards denying the Zuma ANC our vote.. im part of that movement.. Its a pity that we have Zuma as the ANC president.. i supported Mbeki 100% but sadly we were outnumbered.. ANC is my home but the current crop of ‘leaders in waiting’ makes me very worried and sad.. I want a party molded on ANC policies that understands the plight of the black population… sadly we don’t have one right now.. believe we are fighting to take back the soul of the ANC.. Zuma is a pawn and has been and is being used by tne so called ‘champions of the poor’….”
In post war Germany, the Jews felt much the same and until a few years ago, the Germans were constantly apologetic about their past! Most of the Germans were too young to have even known about the war.
However, being the pragmatic nation that they are, the Jews took the moral high road, forgave (but did not forget) and made damned sure there was sensible financial reciprocation for their children. And their children’s children. Unfortunately the German shame didn’t really make great economic sense and the fountain of eternal reciprocation became a dribble …..
What is sooooo screwed up is that the those crimes against humanity were perpetrated by an Austrian!!!!!
Would it have helped the Jews if they had broken down the Germans?
Pretend for a second we are discussing a Zuma supporter (and oh my %$@#, did you SEE the speech that JZ was reading off yesterday) ???????
Why don’t we - as South Africans blessed with the ability to reason - try to understand the pain of someone who has little hope, little pleasure in life and must face hungry kids and no prospects under a corrupt government? The only option for that poor creature is to jump up and down and scream. Like their leader - both parties the hopping action have nothing in their heads and therefore they feel neither pain nor discomfort.
Then there are the Swart’s who remember life in the old days - and it was pretty shit and there is no way they want to go back to it & they are, sure as hell, going to make sure it never happens again. They don’t hop, they yell, but it is in pain and we need to “put on the plasters & kiss it all better” until they trust again.
Solution? Sit around a table, have a meal, a beer and talk!! Without any politicians at all! We’ll figure out something - it’s the self serving politicians that are screwing this up, creating the distrust and making DAMNED sure we never really talk to one another.
So why don’t we all get together ………………….??
Okay, attack me now
Wednesday, 10 September 2008, at 09:31
Swart, your struggle mentality is wearing a little thin.
A government that understands the plight of the black man???
We don’t need that, we need a government that understands the plight of the entire population. Taking the focus off one race group onto another is not a solution at all, it’s the flip side of the same coin.
But you will never see that, and you will continue voting for ANalC, and the country will continue it’s impressive downward trend, and you and all those like you will be sitting in the mud asking “How did this happen?”
Fortunately there are those of us who will do everything in our power to prevent it.
I don’t think the DA is the answer either, but to say you will never let the country get back to white rule? That’s a little racist, even for you Swart. If a white person is the right person to rule, I think that person should run the country, if it’s a black person, like wise.
Again you seem to think all white people want Apartheid back. Let me tell you, more black people want it than whites. Your “whites don’t deserve to be here” rhetoric proves it.
Wednesday, 10 September 2008, at 11:40
Great cartoon - has to go down as one of Zapiro’s best. Of course, government will call the cartoon racist - anything criticising the ANC is racist - the issues never matter, or even come into the equation. The angry blacks need to remember that Zapiro was a champion of their cause during the struggle, and was just as nasty to the Nats. That’s his job, and he does it well.
Swart, although I thought I wouldn’t acknowledge your hatred crap any more, here goes:
You talk about blacks and whites criticising the ANC. And of course any white who points out their failings is a racist (what else could they be?)
How about tucking that racist card away and looking at the situation.
If blacks will vote for the ANC ‘for 40 years’ and I am sure that you are right in that regard, why DON’T they have more black critics?
You can lie as much as you want to about the ANC’s failings in government, that’s not what I am interested in now. But the fact is, they DO fuck up a lot, whether you care to admit it or not, inside you know it’s the truth.
Although whites bitch a lot about them, the ANC’s fuck-ups are having a far worse effect on the poor black population. Who is THEIR voice? Is anyone going to listen even if they had one?
So, I ask again, why are there so few vocal black critics of government’s obvious failings?
I think Tutu is the only one who really says what he feels. Oh wait, I remember now, a black criticising the ANC is just a white sellout. Sorry, I forgot.
Just look at the logic in that, and you will see that there is none.
Wednesday, 10 September 2008, at 11:49
Just one more point Swart, MOST whites DIDN’T vote for the Nats.
Their corrupt system was set up in a way that certain areas got votes according to their supporter base.
For example, Durban (where most voted for the PFP) got 2 votes, while a much smaller, say, Verwoerdberg, where there would have been more Nat supporters, got, say 100 votes. THAT’S how the Nats stayed in power.
So your assertion that “all” or “most” whites voted for the Nats, is very wrong. In fact, I don’t know a single white person who did.
Also, MANY whites risked their lives for the freedom the country has today.
How about we don’t get back into a situation where government ignores most of what most of the people actually want. Oh wait, we’re already there - pity we didn’t learn from the mistakes of our own past.
Wednesday, 10 September 2008, at 12:51
I have to agree with Andrew, most of the whites still here, did vote ANC. None of my friends did and when I am attacked and accused simply for the colour of my skin, I feel that I’m right back to the old days again.
Why is it neccessary to go back in time and breed hatred?
In Swart’s defence he DID say that his nation tended to take the criticism levelled at the government personally and insinuated that it was not the right thing to do!!!
But the thing that annoys me so much that I could spit through the eye of a needle, is the FACT THAT WE ARE ALL PLAYING THE BLACK WHITE THING AGAIN!!!!
That’s not why we are fuming - we are livid because we have a dishonest, corrupt and totally incapable government headed by a criminal, mentally challenged rapist that believes the only way to deal with this country’s legal system (when it won’t allow him to do as pleases) is to rape it!!!
There are plenty of other black leaders that we will support! Intelligent and capable and honourable!!!
Wednesday, 10 September 2008, at 13:55
We all have this chip on our shoulders - and yes Jacoba it unfortunately comes out when we see our leaders acting in the way no democratic country would countenance.
If I read everybody’s comments carefully (which I think very few do!) I see substantial common ground on which we could all have a braai and beer over, but the chips on ALL shoulders keeps bringing the race thing back. Sicovit Andrew L Kakstorie et al are as White Conscious as Swart and Rooster are Black Conscious. And it brings out unnecessary anger and vitriol in the posts that get none of us closer to solving our common problems.
Wednesday 24 September is International Braai and Reconciliation Day and the offer is still on the table - I’ll have a bus at the George Airport to collect you all for the braai. But leave the Chips at home!
Wednesday, 10 September 2008, at 14:09
So they say that this cartoon is racist, because all the men are black and the woman is white…
Well, first of all, I can’t picture a white Julius Malema and secondly I don’t think that woman is white… unless she is Angelina Jolie.
Wednesday, 10 September 2008, at 14:18
She is indeed white. Or more specifically, European. She was the mythological ancient Roman goddess of… well… justice.
Those, like the race-card-pulling buffoons in the SACP and ANCYL, who are calling Zapiro a racist for making her white, are really just making themselves look terribly uneducated, and as a result, creating mountains of laughter for the rest of us.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Justice
Wednesday, 10 September 2008, at 15:40
Current equivalent Zapiro poll on Sowetan
Do you think that cartoonist Zapiro went too far?
Yes 49.60 %
No 50.40 %
TOTAL VOTES: 4298 - one of the most active polls I have seen in recent times
There are a lot of people concerned about the activities aginst the rule of law!
Wednesday, 10 September 2008, at 15:49
Well she doesn’t look white in the cartoon… look at the size of those lips!
(And no, that is not racist, that is a fact. Why do you think so many white women all over the world spend so much money on collagen?)
Wednesday, 10 September 2008, at 15:50
Not quite. She “started” where it all always starts - Egypt as Maat, daughter of Ra (where she was revered and didn’t have to carry the scales around), then Themis (Greek daughter of Uranus or Zeus (not sure) or she’s an oracle), but at one point she becomes the constellation of Virgo!
And that’s important because I’m a Virgo.
As Justitia in Rome she wears the robes, the blindfold, the sword and the scales and is older than 50, symbolizes fair & equal law for ALL with no corruption or prejudice.
Our legal system today is based on Roman law (& Roman Dutch in my day - I think its called private these days). Supposed to, anyway.
VERY IMPORTANT IS THE FACT THAT SHE HAD NO COLOUR, EVER.
This Government has been gang raping her for ages.
Wednesday, 10 September 2008, at 15:53
Grey, they also had a poll on News24:
Zapiro’s cartoon on the ANC “raping” the judiciary:
Went to far 917 = 7%
Was spot on 10 630 = 80%
Is just a cartoon 1 813 = 14%
Total of 13 360 votes!!!!!
Wednesday, 10 September 2008, at 18:10
Swart, just for the record not all whites are rich. Just last night I had two white hobos sleeping in my garden under Salvation Army blankets.
Also, I eat a lot of pasta. I’m just saying.
Doos.
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 00:45
- Wikipedia
If you’re going to draw her, she has to have… well… a colour. And since her history stems from Europe, the association will be a fair skin.
To call Zapiro a racist, in this respect, is grasping at straws, and really laughable.
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 01:29
My Goodness Jeremy!!!!!!!!! Are you drunk????????
At no time whatsoever did I call Zapiro a racist!!!!! Quite the contrary!
I was having a dig at Swart here …. did you miss it????
She was not European at first, she was Egyptian - and the ancient Greeks were not European then. They were more Phonecian and African than anything else - and if you’d like to split hairs we can go even deeper …. frankly, I hardly think that this quite the place.
Now I’ll have that dig at you. Wikipedia? You can’t be serious!!!! Hardly a definitive source …..
To end my bit ….. the whole point is, that the ancients specifically discussed the colour issue (later Gaius gave his 5c worth) and (before that, I think but not 100% sure - am too lazy to dig it out right now) also our friends Plato with Socrates shortly before Socrates’ date with his hemlock - it was specifically pointed out that she had “no nation” and was “not human but goddess”. Remember she was Ra’s daughter and an oracle @ Delphi later in Hellenic times as well as Uranus’ daughter and Zeus’ companion (I remember that bit now). In Rome Justitia was also a goddess which meant she had no colour and could take on whatsoever she wished whensoever she wished. Even if she was human, at that time she would not have been European.
Verstaan my punt?
I thought that Zapiro was taking exactly that point as well …. what a lovely f@#$ %@$ to those that are looking for the racist angle there.
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 09:07
I was not having a stab at you. I was making a general point.
By the way, a number of universities around the world are currently comparing the accuracy of Wikipedia to other major sources of information, and, when I can find the articles again, I’ll surprise you with some startling findings. So if you’re going to trash Wikipedia, then I suggest that you present valid arguments and counter facts. Furthermore, if you’re saying that Wikipedia’s version of Lady Justice is misleading, then please provide a more “accurate” source, if you don’t mind.
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 09:36
With people like the US State department editing things willy nilly on Wiki, one can never be entirely sure that anything there is correct.
I do, however, think it’s the closest thing we can get to an encyclopedia.
I notice Swart and Rooster have completely ignored my last two posts:-
The truth hurts, doesn’t it?
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 09:53
Jinnee Jeremy!!! Noooo, not having a stab at you or Wiki - but Wiki is not a definitive source for any study!!
I was pointing out the vital fact that Justice, from the beginning of time had NO colour and that the ANC spokespeople had missed the point! No matter what colour the cartoonist made her, she could have no colour. I was also pointing out that she was not EUROPEAN - not even in Roman times and not in the sense we think!!
I certainly am not going to drag out a biography of all the books I have read or have on the subject on this site, but if you like, I’ll get to it in the course of the next week or two and send it to you by private email.
Right now, I have the use of one hand, and and one good leg and am only starting to learn to walk again after a year of not having been able to.
(Had a really bad accident & a few other horrors, so dragging books out cannot be my main priority.) Since I am busy, chiefly, with food and as food historian - those books are packed out of reach as I need access to others)
You are welcome here anytime for a coffee & I could take you through it.
Good excuse to meet such a famous person
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 09:55
I think that the cartoonist went a little bit overboard. The cartoon is not so funny as some people tend to think it so, it’s actually very much insulting and embarrasing to the whole nation at large.
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 10:01
If I’m wrong about Lady Justice, then that’s fine. I’m a cartoonist; I’m often wrong. (That’s why we always get into shit.)
I’ll just blame Slipknot.
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 10:21
And I over analyze - but you’re still my hero and you have a talent that I envy. (You also got me through some damned difficult times), which makes you a shrink as well.
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 10:21
Bo,
If you think the cartoonist went overboard, you need to say why you believe that…
I am certainly not embarrassed by it.
It’s the people in the cartoon that should be embarrassed. The powers that be, so to speak.
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 10:22
Bo, how do you think it was insulting to the whole nation? Embarassing maybe in the context that this is the image the world has of SA, but at least some of us are intelligent enough to see it and accept it.
And Wiki’s not too bad, but I wouldn’t quote it for anything that means something… like in academic research, etc.
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 10:24
Bo, I think you’re a sad sad person!
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 10:28
If you cannot understand what the cartoonist was saying, Bo - just scroll up and read the comments above. Sadly, the cartoon is based on the harsh reality of living in SA.
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 10:28
Thanks for the kind words, Jacoba.
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 10:30
AndrewL.. im not quiet.. its better to sit back and read what other people are saying..
I would like to point out that Zuma is not in govt.. the govt hasn’t made any comment on the cartoon.. only Zuma’s ruffians.. we have the old Mbeki ANC and the new Zuma ANC..
Im not a supporter of Zuma and im ashamed and worried at the stupidity displayed by the so called ‘leaders’..
Now people will understand why we fought so hard to keep Zuma from becoming the ANC president.. sadly we were outnumbered.. Currently they have no power and they know it.. Mbeki will not kowtow to their demands, but then all is not lost. Zuma will not become state president.
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 10:37
Dont we live in a society that believes that “guilty until proven guilty..?” and was’nt it the same south african justice system that proven zuma not guilty the ‘rape’ trial a few months ago?.
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 10:44
But this only alludes to the rape trial, the main subject for this particular cartoon is Zuma’s quest to try avoid charges; ones that he hasn’t yet been found guilty or innocent of…
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 10:48
Justitia was the Goddess of Justice - so how does a cartoonest draw a God or Goddess? The constant attack on Justice is an an heretic attack on a deity.
My personal belief is that my God/Goddess encompasses all the Greek/Roman/Egyptian etc gods and made us in his own image so he looks like something of all of us and is colourless. Is that transparent to all of you?
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 10:49
we not talking about the rape trial.. of course he is ‘innocent’ of rape but he did have a consensual sex with another woman who was not his wife.. thats adultery.. and took a shower afterwards to prevent himself from getting hiv .. thats stupidity.. in the US a record like that is enough to dash your ascend to the presidency..
Silence means consent.. His failure to reprimand his goons has made him a bad person.. i thought i could like the guy, but now he makes me puke.. Sadly im black and can’t emigrate.. i will have to take up arms and shoot to kill him and his ilk,,
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 10:56
Swart, about that dinner …………… I’ll get it as long as you come down to Cape Town. I’m almost sure Grey would fly down as well!
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 11:41
Swart_sak, well, i think you should be ashamed of yourself young ‘Sad..black male’, this aint the US,i just cannt see how you can compare such a small developing (economically, democratically, socially etc.) country like south africa to the US, you can easily emigrate!!
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 11:56
@Bo.. but like the US, we need leaders with morals.. Zuma does not represent the ANC i support, he is a pawn in a COSATU, SACP power struggle game.. i feel sorry for the guy because the soul of the ANC is entrusted on him.. the alliance partners want to have a say in the running of the country, Mbeki denied them that, now they are using Zuma. Utterances by Malema and Vavi are not going to help Zuma in any way because at the end of the day its the people who will queue and make a decision.. how i wish we had a credible opposition..
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 12:32
Swart is right. The root of the problem in this country is at itd work moral decline - not racism. If we don’t fight that, we’ll face the direst of consequences!
If you don’t see that and work at that ….. The young
beeselbub and his cronies will stand at the “gateway”, cheering, hopping to welcome you into your new home on behalf of their “leader” ….. Mr. Satan.
Sound familiar?
And we might, just, be doing that on Friday.
Thursday, 11 September 2008, at 12:56
Bo as a small developing (economically, democratically, socially etc.) country surely we should aspire to the values of the leading democracies of the world?
Swart is not unrepresentative of thinking black South Africans - by midday yesterday 2146 Sowetan readers had shown approval of the Zapiro Cartoon (Moer than half who completed the poll)
My personal feeling on the cartoon is that JZ’s pants should have stayed zipped. Him simply standing there being encouraged by his cohorts would have been understood by most triple digit IQ citizens.
Friday, 12 September 2008, at 08:51
Zapiro is merely conveying what we as a “new” South Africa have become !! A playground for politicians….and with talks about “…taking up arms..”, we are not very far away from becoming what Zimbabwe is digging itself out of.
If the can use brute force now to get what they want, just imagine what would happen if those same people came to power…..it would not be very far from that ugly word “apartheid”, that’s for sure.
Friday, 12 September 2008, at 12:52
These guys should be happy that they are being potrayed being at work.at least the people knows that they are paid for doing something.As for the big guy…look at the pic and then the mirror.see if ther’s a difference.
Friday, 12 September 2008, at 13:08
Zuma for president! Jacoba are you with me? Judy? any one?
Friday, 12 September 2008, at 13:11
Just listen to Boy Blade @ the moment and can only stare in shocked amazement. There he stands screaming at poor Zapiro - what a joke. What a sad day.
Friday, 12 September 2008, at 13:12
Either the ANC loses this next election or we are so f@$#%$#@. Good bye beloved country.
Friday, 12 September 2008, at 13:23
If ANC wins we all get free showers installed in our homes.maybe fraud cases withdrawn.therefore I can quit my job to do fraud.
Friday, 12 September 2008, at 13:54
I’m fucked off too.
This is bullshit. No rape charge, no fraud charge, no nothing. Lesser men have been beheaded for things not nearly as bad as this doos has been accused of.
Friday, 12 September 2008, at 14:22
Justice hey…!?
Friday, 12 September 2008, at 15:06
Please don’t despair.
If you listened to the judgement carefully it was clear that there had been finger trouble at the NPA and the Judge had little choice in terms of the law. I think Justice was served and he made it very clear about the requirement of Independence from political pressure for both the NPA and the Judiciary.
Now we need to see if the NPA can act independently and carry on with the case but do it by the book.
btw todays Sowetan Poll is if Biko would be proud of SA today - 3/4 of the 2000 who voted so far say NO!
Friday, 12 September 2008, at 16:16
The NPA had made it difficult for the judge and the law is the law! Don’t forget that Kemp J. Kemp was a masterful lawyer. Sadly.
Tuesday, 16 September 2008, at 12:48
Jacoba.. the ANC created the SA we live in today..
Tuesday, 16 September 2008, at 19:45
Swart, and we all had a hand in it ……
We voted for them and even though there are many other able South Africans, we voted wrong.
We all freaked when Mbeki used his quiet diplomacy methods, but he is getting a result (and yes, it may not last) but the message is clear - we need to behave like human beings and not like bloodthirsty animals. We live in 2008 dammit.
I have spent a lot of time thinking about it this weekend (and yes, I am very sad about the direction we seem to be taken) which is why I have come to a conclusion that unless we stand together we will become just like my own nation, the Afrikaner, who never did manage to stand together.
And still can’t.
So, have your nation emulated mine now?
What makes me so angry is that there are many black politicians that are world class, highly intelligent and more than able that could rule this country and have us all behind them.
But, where are they?
We need rulers that care, love and genuinely have the interests of all South Africans at heart.
We have the ability, the brains and the country - now bring us a leader.
Thursday, 25 September 2008, at 09:29
Please Guys stop talking about that empty headed”MALEMA” it will make him fell special.Zapiro keep it up;you the man.